effervescible: (ichigo - turn turn turn)
Jaina ([personal profile] effervescible) wrote2007-06-23 03:05 pm

Stoled from [livejournal.com profile] memlu and others

Ask me about a concept in fandom (the treatment of female characters, incest, etc etc.) and I'll give you my opinion on it.

[identity profile] beachlass.livejournal.com 2007-06-23 10:20 pm (UTC)(link)
authority figure/younger person pairings

[identity profile] jaina.livejournal.com 2007-06-25 07:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Nothing wrong with writing about them by definition, because fanfiction is not as simple as The Adventures of Dick and Jane, but if you're trying to write them in a realistic manner, damn well at least touch upon the issues involved. Because there are a lot. And in the real world? There are a lot of reasons it's not okay.

[identity profile] hallowd.livejournal.com 2007-06-23 11:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Sex as a cure for rape/incest traumas. If that's too sensitive/serious, let's say treatment of female characters by slash writers in animanga fandom. Or do both, whichever way.

[identity profile] jaina.livejournal.com 2007-06-25 07:15 pm (UTC)(link)
1. IT IS STUPID. Not that I would try to censor people if that's what they want to write about. I will just call the fics stupid, possibly behind a flock.

2. I would never generalize slash writers as a single entity, but sometimes I just want to ask: WHY DO YOU HATE YOUR VAGINA? And I wish I could say "okay, if this character were a dude instead of a chick, would you still hate them?" and force them to BE HONEST.

It's just as okay to not find het hot as it is to not find yaoi/slash hot, but sometimes the misogyny is coming from the ladies too.

[identity profile] lady-ganesh.livejournal.com 2007-06-26 12:01 am (UTC)(link)
I like my vagina just fine. I just don't want to fuck it.

[identity profile] jaina.livejournal.com 2007-06-26 12:44 am (UTC)(link)
I think that is the best explanation ever for "why slash and not het?" I hope I didn't come across as sounding like there's something wrong if you don't like them tasty vaginas. It's just the segment of slash fans that don't see their own misogyny that boggles me. (And the misogyny can come from het fans too--I think we could name a couple of individuals...)

[identity profile] lady-ganesh.livejournal.com 2007-06-26 12:56 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm fine with Ichigo/Rukia, but I'm not sure I want to watch them fucking. And some het-- and some slash-- ships work far better than others.

[identity profile] jaina.livejournal.com 2007-06-26 01:01 am (UTC)(link)
Well clearly I must defriend you know. GOD KNOWS THE TWO OF US CAN'T EVER DISAGREE ON SHIPS OF CHOICE, AMIRITE? ;)

[identity profile] lady-ganesh.livejournal.com 2007-06-26 01:05 am (UTC)(link)
OBVIOUSLY.

[identity profile] gulliblesnail.livejournal.com 2007-06-24 04:51 am (UTC)(link)
This is off-topic, I'm sorry, but we talked very briefly in Memlu's journal a while back. You'd asked for the Flash Gordon mp3, and I was wondering if you still needed it? I finally have a copy, so just let me know!

[identity profile] jaina.livejournal.com 2007-06-24 05:09 am (UTC)(link)
Huh. I...totally don't remember that, sorry XD. But hey, that sounds awesome, so sure! Thanks!

[identity profile] gulliblesnail.livejournal.com 2007-06-24 05:32 am (UTC)(link)
Haha, no, that's cool! I had to check back on the Blades of Glory post to make sure you were the right person. But I remembered promising it and would feel bad if I never followed through, so here you go (http://www.sendspace.com/file/abxmeu)!

[identity profile] jaina.livejournal.com 2007-06-24 05:35 am (UTC)(link)
OH I DO REMEMBER NOW. I guess I just needed the right keywords. Thank you so much!

[identity profile] gulliblesnail.livejournal.com 2007-06-24 05:53 am (UTC)(link)
You're welcome!
ext_15055: (Isshin - Stud)

[identity profile] irenak.livejournal.com 2007-06-24 02:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Parent/child relationships or lack thereof in fic/shows (not in the squick way, in the normal if occasionally dysfunctional way).

Alternatively titled "Gosh, you think Joss has Daddy Issues?"

[identity profile] jaina.livejournal.com 2007-06-25 07:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, it sort of touches on both--I think it is a little weird that more of fandom is interested in working out parent/child issues through orgasms than on exploring realistic issues they'd have. It could be because of fandoms tendency to wank in the literal sense (hey man, I have nothing against it--the internet is for porn, after all) or it could be because so many parents are just dead in fandom. (I'm looking at YOU, Bleach.)

Really, I think there's a wealth of opportunity that often goes untapped both in fic and shows, even setting aside the angsty stuff. Just look at Daddy!

[identity profile] lady-ganesh.livejournal.com 2007-06-26 12:02 am (UTC)(link)
(I was counting off dead parents in Bleach the other day and got a headache.)

[identity profile] jaina.livejournal.com 2007-06-26 12:45 am (UTC)(link)
At least Orihime's aren't dead, they're just abusive fuckwits who never see her? I guess that's not really better. Um, Ishida's mom might just...just be on vacation?

[identity profile] lady-ganesh.livejournal.com 2007-06-26 12:57 am (UTC)(link)
...wait, I thought they were dead and that's why her brother took care of her? But he's a dead father figure, that should count, right? Um.

[identity profile] jaina.livejournal.com 2007-06-26 01:02 am (UTC)(link)
They were total dickwads and he walked out with her when he was 18, I think. Supposedly she gets by on money from relatives and they're never mentioned, so they're pretty much as good as dead. They could have died after the fact. And yeah, Sora counts as a dad family/authority figure close enough.

[identity profile] lady-ganesh.livejournal.com 2007-06-26 01:04 am (UTC)(link)
Somehow I forgot that. Probably lost in all the other EMO AND TRAUMA.
ext_15055: (Renji - So Stoned)

[identity profile] irenak.livejournal.com 2007-06-27 01:21 am (UTC)(link)
I wish to read the fic where she comes back from vacation in the middle of the Hueco Mundo arc and Ryuugen is forced to explain precisely why Ishida is not in school.

[identity profile] jaina.livejournal.com 2007-06-27 01:38 am (UTC)(link)
Maybe she's having a ladies' vacation with Mrs. Ozai.

"Ryuuken, I distinctly recall asking you not to be a coldhearted dick!"

[identity profile] lady-ganesh.livejournal.com 2007-06-26 01:06 am (UTC)(link)
I forgot a question! Let's do incest. Or not.

[identity profile] jaina.livejournal.com 2007-07-26 02:27 am (UTC)(link)
LAWL, LOOK AT ME ANSWER THIS COMMENT A MONTH LATER WHEN TAGGING ENTRIES. Oops.

I don't think the writing of the `cest automatically makes you a sick deviant or anything, but I have to say, parent/child incest weirds me the fuck out and makes me wonder what exactly people are getting off on. I suppose the emotional power imbalance in particular makes such pairings especially unpalatable to me. And I think some fans just like incest because it's a way to be kewl and edgy, which is a whole different kind of annoyance.

[identity profile] lady-ganesh.livejournal.com 2007-07-27 01:09 am (UTC)(link)
I've never gotten that one as a kink. Plot point, yes. Kink...um, what.

Insert obligatory Anaïs Nin reference here.

[identity profile] jaina.livejournal.com 2007-07-27 01:17 am (UTC)(link)
I like Kuchikicest in Bleach, but I guess that makes me some kind of incest poser, since they're not related and met as adults anyway. Somehow, I think I can live with that.

I suppose I should check Anais Nin out, as such references fly right over my head!

[identity profile] lady-ganesh.livejournal.com 2007-07-27 02:38 pm (UTC)(link)
I have a couple, mostly involving the word 'twins.' Of course one is canon. Dunno if that's better or worse.

You're not missing that much. IIRC, she seduced her father to see what it was like. What.