In which I babble a lot about Kingdom Hearts. No one cares about this post.

[effervescible]

Well, Kari might. Anyway. Due to a combo of playing Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days, replaying KH2 and having it make sense, and picking up Roxas at sirenspull, I've been getting into it a lot more lately. (I know, I know, several years too late...but backstory really did make a difference. I've posted about this before.)

So then when I was chatting with Dia before I asked her if I could share some thoughts on Axel and I kind of wordvomited into her lap. Poor dear. Remind me to get her pants drycleaned.

Me: can I exposition some axel thoughts at you?

Dia: certainly!

Me: in khfanficrants today there was a thread where people were like "yeah axel is kind of a shitty friend" (lol, seriously) "who doesn't care what xion and roxas want as long as he can keep them liking him and as his friends" and I went hmm
Me: because I kind of agree but...I think he started caring a lot earlier than he did anything about it
Me: it's only in the novel I think, idk the manga, but it's like halfway into kh2 that he even realizes he feels lonely without Roxas around, that he CAN feel like that
Me: so I think caring about his friends--the way he used to care about Saix when they were Somebodies and apparently biffles--kind of snuck up on him. It's not something he'd immediately realize was growing strong.
Me: and whether he does or not...even when he does...shit, what the hell does he know what to do with something like that?
Me: being a total selfish dick has worked for him so far, so why not be a selfish dick when it comes to his friends too? also not wanting to get turned into a dusk and all that
Me: and even aside from that it can't be easy to change the selfish assassin habits ingrained like that
Me: idk, maybe I'm being too defensive because I want him to care about Roxas and not just the way Roxas makes him feel XD but I think he does, otherwise he wouldn't have just watched Roxas leave
Me: he's just slow as fuck cuz it takes him a long time to realize he might want to do something more unselfish, longer to actually do it, and then he fucking overcompensates by dying for his friend (and that's basically what it was, either to save Soroxas from the Dusks or to do him a favor by enabling him to save HIS friend) because THERE CAN BE NO IN-BETWEENS WITH AXEL
Me: EVER
Me: okay i think I'm done

Dia: yeah idk what to say except for i think you're pretty spot on XD

Me: YAY 8D\
Me: i might copypasta that rambling into lj in lieu of actually coming up with original content for a post pffft

Dia: i think axel looks out for himself number one and it's almost like he CAN'T be altruistic, his acts of altruism still ultimately benefit him
Dia: yet as far as roxas goes i think the intent of actually being a good friend to him was there
Dia: and maybe wanting to care is close enough to caring

Me: considering the crowd he runs with, being selfish is actually a pretty good survival situation. even demyx is a fucking tank.
Me: yeah, I think he can care but...doesn't know how. Like, I CAN throw a baseball, but I don't know how to do a pitch properly
Me: I would need a coach to show me how
Me: and to tell me when I'm fucking up

Dia: yes and after castle oblivion especially, you can see the way his brain works when he is like...killing all these people for being traitors to the organization but HE DOES IT HIMSELF WITHOUT A SECOND THOUGHT

Me: Roxas is Axel's pitching coach NO GAY JOKES

Dia: lmfao
Dia: but i can't quite grasp what i'm trying to say...

Me: and with Xion--did you see the scene where she's having a talk with namine and gets interrupted outside the mansion?

Dia: no :o

Me: /trying not to spoil
Me: haha, okay

Dia: don't tell me thiiiiings
Dia: but anyway getting back to how axel's brain works

Me: let's just say there's a scene where he's saying one thing but his facial expressions and vocal inflections are a lot less certain

Dia: i think he can intellectually see the advantages of, say, loyalty, until it's no longer an advantage to him
Dia:and his actions are based on what's going to keep him alive and well
Dia: but when it comes to roxas he loses sight of that
Dia: so i think that it's a genuine feeling

Me: and he fucks up by defaulting to the selfish mode and then getting hung up when Roxas goes :| and Axel's like, shit right, people don't like it when I do selfish mode
Me: BUT SURELY IF THINGS JUST STAY THE SAME, ROXAS WON'T NEED TO GET ALL CURIOUS AND WE CAN HAVE HAPPY ICE CREAM TIMES HAPPY ICE CREAM TIMES i'm not desperate :-(

Dia: hahaha yes! that's what i'm trying to say
Dia: he reacts to what threatens him and what he's built

Me: and as much as I DO agree with the people in the thread that he's kind of a selfish fuck...even in KH2, he's being selfish, but Roxas IS being held captive in some lala matrix world, so even if Roxas might not have wanted to come back to joining the Organization and even if Axel's primary motivation is selfish...he is kind of doing him a solid there.
Me: or, trying.

Dia: /nodnod

Me: and even if it's a quasi-retcon/was stuff they didn't think about until later, he DOES do some unselfish things in Days
Me: and keeps getting in shit with Saix

Dia: and i don't think he sees that something is WRONG anymore than he sees what might be right
Dia: and i think he thinks that what's in his best interest is in roxas's too up until mid-KH2

Me: Yeah, he BELIEVED it when he said the Organization would destroy Roxas if he left
Me: and he knows what they're planning
Me: so as much as you could say "oh he's still just a selfish dick because he only wants Roxas to come back so he can have his friend" I don't believe that completely. He doesn't want Roxas to die, and not just because he likes having him around.

In retrospect I could've just linked this video from KH2: Final Mix, but then then I wouldn't be able to babble so much. And that would be just terrible.

Comments

[starvinbohemian.livejournal.com]

Aw, Axel. I think the evolution of his character is one of the most interesting aspects of all the KH games. Have you played Chain of Memories? He's fascinating in that one, since he's playing not two but at least three different sides and alternating between being Sora's enemy and dropping hints here and there about Roxas and their connection through Roxas while Sora is all "Wuh?"

[jaina.livejournal.com]

It really is, and it's funny, because he wasn't even originally intended to be such a main character. (And I don't feel that takes away from the character he did become—a LOT of really awesome, deeper things get produced because the creators initially think "THAT WOULD BE COOL! 8D" Like most of Bleach.) He just changes so much. I did play Chain of Memories—I only actually beat the PS2 re-release re: Chain of Memories, have you played it? The redone cut scenes really add a lot. Axel's SUCH a backstabbing dick in it, it's tremendously entertaining. I know some people got snitty because he acted so different in CoM and KH2, but umm...yeah. Yeah, he's going to act differently when he's putting up a front for Sora vs pleading with the guy who's his best friend, even if said best friend doesn't remember him. As for dropping hints, have you played Days? I lol'd when he came back from the Castle Oblivion mission and told Roxas he could thank "himself" that Axel had survived to come back and have ice cream. Ha, indeed.

/tldr

[starvinbohemian.livejournal.com]

Nah, I played it on Gameboy. I really want those cutscenes though!

Yeah, Axel's a master manipulator, so of course he's going to be different with different people!

I haven't played Days. I read the synopsis, heard about girl!Sora, and said no thanks! But that sounds like a very Axel-ish thing to say.

[hallowd.livejournal.com]

I read this post! And I chuckled at the tags.

brb when I have actually played the games and have something more intelligent to say. XD I do find it ironic that this might possibly be the first game (franchise) ever where I got interested because of the bad guys.

[jaina.livejournal.com]

Hee, I'm glad. I may be seriously considering making an Axel+Roxas icon with the text "you and me could write a rad bromance." (Um, it's a Gaga thing if you don't know the lyric.) Maybe.

XD That's doubly amusing that you say that, because while KH has some really interesting and fun bad guys—Axel certainly being one of them—other members of the Organization get little enough screentime that they're really pretty shallow. Which doesn't stop fandom, of course.

It can't be said that the series is afraid to change up alignments, though. One character goes from canonical ally to game boss to star of his own (half of) the game to mysterious shadow figure to sort-of boss again to shadow mentor to party member. I'm pretty fond of him, too.

[sideburnpower.livejournal.com]

Please, oh baby, don't go.

[jaina.livejournal.com]

Simple and clean is the way that you're making me feel tonight.