effervescible | Religion and the work place

This entry isn't titled "Religion in the workplace" because...well, you'll see. So. I'm back working at Dairy Queen (Unclean! Unclean!) and recently Kelly, our manager, has invited people to come to some special church thing. I'm not really sure of the details but apparently it's focused towards teenagers headed to college or something like that, and that's most of our work crew.

Now, this is not actually what I'm ranting about. I would be very uncomfortable if Kelly was pressuring people to do this or constantly talking up her Godly views, but I honestly feel that she was just offering something she thought would be fun to people she has a friendly relationship with. I mean, I didn't go, and she hasn't bugged me about it or even mentioned it to me since the initial invitation. (Of course, if this changes later, I will certainly revise my opinion.)

That brings us today. Apparently Bob, one of the three lawyers who owns the story, "yelled at" Kelly for inviting people to church. I have no if he actually yelled at her or just expressed disapproval. I wasn't there and I obviously wasn't getting Bob's point of view. Elizabeth, who is a few years younger than me, seemed particularly annoyed by this, and towards the end of my shift I heard her talking to Kelly about it in the back, something like "Well, if he's so offended by that, he can..." I was getting someone's order so I didn't hear all of what she said, but it was starting to really annoy me and I took the opportunity to go home early a short time later.

What am I pissed about? Not Kelly's invitation, actually. I don't feel like she was acting inappropriately--but she could have easily done so. Religion is a tricky issue, especially in the workplace. It would take almost nothing for her to cross the line and make some people uncomfortable. Hell, as my mom pointed out, maybe she did make someone uncomfortable and that's why Bob "yelled at" her. But whether she was or wasn't acting appropriately--Bob does not know for sure. He was not there. Just because some people, like his daughter, have assured him that it was okay, does not prove that it was. It's his ass on the line of someone decides to sue for religious discrimination or something.

Is yelling at Kelly the right solution? I don't really think so. A calm, serious discussion with the point that if she wants to invite co-workers to religious recreation that she make damn sure she isn't doing it in a way that pressures or makes people uncomfortable would probably work better, but for all I know that's what did happen. It just really annoyed me that I seemed to be the only person to understand Bob's point of view. This is a situation in which he damn well should err on the side of caution. Just because her invitation was sincerely meant does not mean things couldn't easily go sour. If people were offended by it, that means there wa sprobably something worth getting offended over.

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Keep in mind, many people literally do not understand why religion at work is a problem. For them, it seems as if Bob went out of his way to make Kelly feel bad, because there isn't any other obvious motivation he could have. After all, who could be upset about church?

Of course, Bob, being a lawyer, knows better - church can get his store into major trouble. This goes double because Kelly's your manager, not just a co-worker. Her innocent invitation to church could easily be taken as an attempt at coercion, because she's in a position where she could possibly play favorites with those who choose to go, or punish those who don't. That's big bad mojo. Even if she didn't actually intend anything of the sort, your store could still have been dragged into court.

It just goes to show, keep quiet about religion at work, unless you're willing to put up with possibly getting into trouble. It kind of sucks for those of us who want to be friends with people at work, but them's the breaks.

So if my supervisors invite me to go to the bar with them, it could be seen as coercion?

If the manager is friendly with the kids she invited, then what's the big deal? They could go, they could not go.

It's not that they couldn't do that, or Kelly couldn't do what she did. Like I said, in this case I don't feel that she asked in a way that was inappropriate or could be seen as pressuring. But it could have been, and since he wasn't there, Bob doesn't know 100% that it wasn't. That's why he's right to be concerned about it, though yelling about it isn't the most constructive way to respond.

Yeah, he should've gone around and asked all the employees about it before approaching Kelly.

So if my supervisors invite me to go to the bar with them, it could be seen as coercion?

Yes, it could. This is one reason why it's best for managers to keep their personal lives well away from the company, because it can create major resentment if some people are seen as "favorites" of the manager. I've seen this happen over simple little things, like managers going with some of the employees out to lunch, and the fallout can totally destroy company morale.

If the manager is friendly with the kids she invited, then what's the big deal? They could go, they could not go.

The big deal is, there are laws against religious discrimination in the workplace, thus making the usual "looks like the manager has a favorite" problem into a matter for the courts. To put it another way: if someone has evidence that a manager went around inviting people to the bar, the worst that can happen is that they might whine to the boss and shake things up a bit. If someone has evidence that a manager went around inviting people to a religious function, the worst that can happen is that the company might fold due to a discrimination lawsuit.

I really highly doubt it -- at a Dairy Queen? Hee. *g*

While Grey has very good points, the idea of all that stuff happening at our little DQ seems hysterically funny to me.

I really highly doubt it -- at a Dairy Queen? Hee. *g*

heh, the ACLU lives to sue places like Dairy Queens. You get two or three of them where this kind of thing goes on, and then you sue the pants off of the entire franchise. "Pattern of discrimination", all that jazz. Never underestimate the litigiousness of American lawyers. ^____^

Oversensitivity is starting to become a major issue in places. *sigh*

I wasn't there, I can't judge, but I see nothing wrong if Kelly said, "My church is having ________ and if you'd like to come you're welcome." And left it at that. Then everyone knows it's a church event, they know what they're in for, and can make their own choice.

The only thing is that can lead to discussion, but I don't know if it did or not. I think Bob was wrong in yelling at her. I think Bob had a right to be worried, but he should have asked her or said, "Look, inviting the kids to this wasn't bad, but I just want to make sure you understand that this cannot ever lead to a discussion of religion while you're in the workplace."

I hope this came through in my post--annoyance can sometimes block clarity--but I pretty much agree with you. That's pretty much what Kelly did. I have no idea if Bob actually yelled or if that was just Elizabeth being defensive, but it's possible, and I agree that yelling about it doesn't solve anything. My annoyance stemmed from the fact that some people seemed to think that Bob had no possible justification for frowning on the situation. Maybe they're right and he is an ass, but it's not because of his concern.

Well, in honesty, I think Bob handled the situation badly, if he indeed yelled. Yup, you're right, he had the right to investigate the situation, but if he went off on it, and indeed Kelly was not overstepping the boundries, then it sounds like Bob is a tad paranoid and Kelly got the brunt of it.

That could very well be. I'm reserving judgment since I don't know if he actually yelled or that's just how they interpreted it. Bob can be an ass at times so I wouldn't be shocked either. But I won't worry myself with it. ^_^

I used to work at a Jewish bakery that employed several fundemental Baptists, heathens (me), and Muslims. It was a very interesting job.

*sigh* Kelly's invite sounds innocent. There's a difference between going, "Hey, we've got this nice social going on at my church, feel free to come if you want," and, "Yo, get your damned ass to my church before the Hellfire reaches up and swallows you whole!"

Now, try working where I do, with a stereotypical Bible misquoting, Holier-Than-Thou, man chasing (married or not doesn't make a difference) person who takes every oppurtunity to bring everything she does BACK to the Bible (especially regarding kids) and then goes onto LONG rants about how the Antichrist is on the Earth and we're living on borrowed time and to watch Trannsylvania because the End is going to start there, blah blah blah. Bob probably would have fired her by now, not just yelled at her. And I STILL bite my tongue to keep from commenting, despite the fact that I want to.

If people were offended, they would have said so. It's like a Catch 22, you're going to offend people no matter what you do.

Religion and the work place

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Don't get me started. >.<