Jaina (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
effervescible) wrote2002-10-16 12:48 am
effervescible) wrote2002-10-16 12:48 am
Gah.
I knew it was a bad idea. I knew it. I have BETTER things to do, dammit. (Though, I did get all my studying done. Yay me.) But I had to go do it again.
What the hell am I talking about? Well, last night I was traipsing through ffnet and came across one of the most blatant examples of review-mongering I have EVER seen.
"****This is not the end of this chapter but I will not continue this with only four people reading it. People kept telling me that they wanted more Trigun fics from me. I started this one so I could fulfill this and because I enjoy writing Trigun fics. When I get nothing from the people who asked for it and only a few reviews per chapter(thank you to the people who did review ^.^) I suspect that no one is even reading this anymore. I take time out of my day to write this for people. I do my best and only a few people are kind enough to review it. I will not continue this if I do not get more reviews. I`m so sorry to the people who are enjoying this but I do need more support to write this.
Thank you to the people who read this. Again: I need more reviews."
I was flabbergasted, though I have no idea why. And I had people egging me on. And so I left a response. Here is the day-long "epic" of stupidity that resulted.
My response:
Thank you to the people who read this. Again: I need more reviews."
What you need is a good kick in the pants.
Get this straight, sir or madam. People do not owe you reviews. Again: PEOPLE DO NOT OWE YOU REVIEWS. If you don’t want to write or post unless you get a certain number of reviews, that is your prerogative and a valid decision, but I beg you to stop the self-righteous bullshit posturing.
Let’s see. You take the time out of your day to write this, eh? So very different from all the other authors who manage to freeze time and write in a sub-pocket stasis field, I see. Guess what? You take the time to write; that makes you a writer. It does not make you some benevolent demi-god whose fic we are obligated to fall over ourselves to praise when it is posted. Don’t act like you’re doing us any huge favors by writing. You write because you want to, and you post because you presumably want to know what people think. How unique, except for the part where it’s not. Everyone wants feedback, chuckles. The difference is that most people understand that they will not get as much as they want. Maybe people are busy, or don’t have much to say, or don’t like it, or just plain don’t feel like reviewing. That sucks for the author, ANY author, but it is no way an affront to them or you because you! Are! Not! Owed! Feedback! Even if people asked you to write more, that does not equal some mystical contract in which they are obligated to review. If you’re right and no one’s reading your story…well, sucks to be you, but that’s no reason for a childish whine-attack over how you’re not getting the attention you feel you deserve.
You say you need reviews. You do not. You would like to have reviews. Nothing wrong with that. But there IS something wrong with guilt-tripping anyone who happens to be reading for exercising their right to choose what they do or do not review.
Oh, and in case you’re wondering if this is some kind of personal vendetta or a ranting born of some kind of jealousy…no. I’m just your everyday fic reader who gets annoyed when writers act like they’re owed some sort of tribute. Just to make sure it wasn’t just me, I asked a few associates and they too were appalled by your comments.
Now. You requested reviews, so here is my honest opinion, unaffected by your little pity-party above. I thought all of this the first time I saw this fic, but never reviewed because…well, that’s really my business alone, isn’t it? Anyways. This story is not a bad beginning, but it could use some fleshing out. Everything is happening a little too conveniently to set in motion the events you want. It truly strains credibility to ask us to believe that Vash callously abandoned Meryl at the altar and now they’re friends as if nothing happened. The humiliation factor alone would take quite some time to get over. His reasoning is also flawed; if he cannot bear to be with her because of the pain of seeing her age and die, why is he still her friend and why does he still spend lots of time with her? She will still die eventually, and the agony of losing a dear friend is also extremely painful. It’s a flawed argument. From the beginning, it’s hard to believe in whatever happens next because the setup is unrealistic. This is not an awful fic and could be quite good in time, but it does need work. If you choose to continue it, I applaud you for your persistence and desire to improve. If you choose not to continue, that is also your right. Either way, please remember that it is your choice and a voluntary action, not one half of a bartering system.
To: bitter_reader@hotmail.com
Please! If I want reviews for my story it is up to me to decide this! Do not write me what you consider all in your own opinion. It is not bullshit to me. What I wrote up there was my own opinion. People did not have to respond to that. They chose to because they wanted to have it continue. And yes it does take time out of my day. I do write for people and I think that I need to hear from people to see if it is any good.
Another thing: Do not give me this crap about "it could have been better". Duh! Every story could be better! You probably wrote all of this out because you did not agree with my opinion, You can write me an email. Do not waste some criticism on me just so you can feel better about that. Yes. It might be your opinion but I do not appreciate the way that you responded to it. Keep your personal stuff to yourself that has to do with my opinion. I do not mind constructive criticism but with what you put before I can tell that you are pissed about what I wrote to the readers.
In other words I do not appreciate what you wrote but I you are entitled to your own opinion. Do not write things like that under my reviews again. You do not know who`s feelings can be hurt by that.
-You know who-
>Please! If I want reviews for my story it is up to me to decide this! Do not write me what >you consider all in your own opinion. It is not bullshit to me. What I wrote up there was my >own opinion. People did not have to respond to that. They chose to because they wanted to >have it continue. And yes it does take time out of my day. I do write for people and I think >that I need to hear from people to see if it is any good.
I think I'll just skip this part. I've made it clear how I feel; you disagree. We can both live with that, I think.
>Another thing: Do not give me this crap about "it could have been better". Duh! Every story >could be better! You probably wrote all of this out because you did not agree with my >opinion,
No. As I said in my review, these were thoughts and reactions that I had before you ever posted the third chapter. Not that I have to justify my review-leaving habits, but I had planned on leaving one eventually. It would have said the exact same thing, minus the ranting. You just happened to inspire the ranting before I got around to it.
>You can write me an email. Do not waste some criticism on me just so you can feel better >about that.
Uh...feel better about what? Look, if you only want the positive reviews posted to ffnet and constructive criticism e-mailed directly to you, SAY SO. People can't read your mind. You posted to a public forum and should know that in doing so, you open yourself up to praise, criticism, etc etc etc. You knew that one of the main purposes of ffnet was the review system. Why should you expect all of them to be good? As writers, we don't get to choose how people react to our work. I'm sure most people would be willing to send you private criticism if you asked, but even then, as long as you post to a public arena, expect that people will ultimately decide for themselves how they want to respond.
>Yes. It might be your opinion but I do not appreciate the way that you responded to it. >Keep your personal stuff to yourself that has to do with my opinion. I do not mind >constructive criticism but with what you put before I can tell that you are pissed about what >I wrote to the readers.
You are correct about that. Quite a few people who saw what you wrote were also very annoyed by the greedy tone you set. It may not have been what you intended, but that is how it came across. My annoyance, however, did not change how I felt about the premise of your story. Personally, I find Knives/Meryl fics very interesting and am glad to see others try them out. Having been trained as a writer for quite a few years now (this does not make me a better person or somehow superior; I only say this to let you know that I do have the background to support that I'm not just talking out of my ass here), I can also say that there are a few areas in which your story could be strengthened to become a better one. You're certainly not obligated to take my advice, but I think it's rather silly to get mad when people offer what could be helpful advice.
>In other words I do not appreciate what you wrote but I you are entitled to your own >opinion. Do not write things like that under my reviews again. You do not know who`s >feelings can be hurt by that.
Duly noted. Since you requested it, I will no longer leave reviews containing honest, constructive criticism...or ranting. Good luck in developing a thicker skin.
>-You know who-
I can see the sender from the header of this e-mail, but other than that I haven't the faintest idea who you are. Definitely not a personal thing.
-Ania
Why do u have to be so rude to people? I don`t understand that. No. I do not put my real name on here because I do not want people getting my personal information. It has nothing to do with FF.net. You did not have to be so rude in this response, you know. Is it just like people to be rude because they think their opinion is what the world revolves around. Don`t you dare bullshit me with shit about my names or what have you. This is about my opinion being slandered. That`s fucking shit about me not being able to take constructive criticism. I can take it. What i can`t take is someone twisting my words around. Your ignorant misusage of the points in my words to the reader disgust me. You could have been a lot more civilized than that.
And your name on your email and your email address isnt exactly personal either. They do, however, show me exactly who you are: A person who goes around cutting what other people say down so the whole world can hear what you have to say even if it hurts someone else. I feel sorry for the people that have their fics reviewed by you who voice their opinions. I can only imagine what fragile minds you break without thinking of the consequences that may arise. For all you know those people could feel suicidal. Yes. Suicide is wrong but you know what? You don`t give a shit who you hurt! You only care about your own damn opinion! You are the perfect example of someone who takes pleasure from hurting others.
-Akima-
>Why do u have to be so rude to people? I don`t understand that. No. I do not put my real >name on here because I do not want people getting my personal information. It has nothing >to do with FF.net.
You completely missed my point. I understand you not wanting people to have your personal information. The name I'm using at the moment isn't even my regular login, because I too do not enjoy people harassing me.
>You did not have to be so rude in this response, you know. Is it just like people to be rude >because they think their opinion is what the world revolves around.
You asked for reviews. I left one that you did not agree with. Deal with it or don't post in a PUBLIC forum.
>Don`t you dare bullshit >me with shit about my names or what have you. This is about my >opinion being slandered.
First of all...libel is written, slander is spoken, so if it was anything it would be libel. Except it's not. I disagree with your opinion, but I RESPECT your right to have it. That is in no way slander, especially in a private e-mail discussion between two people.
>That`s fucking shit about me not being able to take constructive criticism. I can take it. What >i can`t take is someone twisting my words around. Your ignorant misusage of the points in >my words to the reader disgust me. You could have been a lot more civilized than that.
You obviously cannot take it. Let's look at what I did, shall we?
1. I stated my opinion that you had bad manners, an opinion which many people agree with.
2. I encouraged you to keep writing and talked about one area which needs work and would really help make the story believable.
Now, obviously you're not going to agree with me about your manners or else you wouldn't have written what you did. However, I did not twist your words at all. I talked about the impression that I and others felt that the comments gave, and I talked about our reaction to them. But I never said you said anything other than what you did.
> >Please! If I want reviews for my story it is up to me to decide this!
Yes, it is. But it is not up to you whether you receive them.
>Do not write me what >you consider all in your own opinion.
If you don't want people to review with their opinions, DON'T ASK FOR REVIEWS. If you want only positive reviews, say so. Otherwise you have no right to complain when not all of them are 100% good.
>It is not bullshit to me. What I wrote up there was my >own opinion. People did not have to >respond to that.
They don't. But you asked them to. And as I have said repeatedly, I respect your right to have an opinion. I just disagree with it. You are apparently unwilling to extend me the same courtesy.
>They chose to because they wanted to >have it continue. And yes it does take time out of >my day. I do write for people and I think >that I need to hear from people to see if it is any >good.
Feedback is a vital part of growing as a writer. However, unless all of these people explicitly stated that they would review as long as you wrote, you have nothing to complain about. In the end it is the reader's choice. Even if they reviewed in the past and encouraged you to write more, they never owe anyone reviews.
>And your name on your email and your email address isnt exactly personal either. They do, >however, show me exactly who you are: A person who goes around cutting what other >people say down so the whole world can hear what you have to say even if it hurts someone >else.
You are wrong. The name I chose to use on this account is mostly a joke shared with some of my friends. In any case, I stated my opinions calmly. You're the one who flew off the handle.
>I feel sorry for the people that have their fics reviewed by you who voice their opinions. I >can only imagine what fragile minds you break without thinking of the consequences that >may arise. For all you know those people could feel suicidal. Yes. Suicide is wrong but you >know what? You don`t give a shit who you hurt! You only care about your own damn >opinion! You are the perfect example of someone who takes pleasure from hurting others.
You have no room to complain. You asked for reviews. You did not ask for positive reviews only, therefore I concluded that you were open to all sorts. If this is not true, then perhaps you should try clarifying what types of reviews you want. Being a writer means being able to accept both positive and negative opinions of your work, learning from them if possible, and getting on with your life. If someone is so fragile that having someone point out that they have bad manners and their story is not perfect, then they have NO business posting work in an arena specifically designed for both positive and negative feedback. You willingly opened yourself to criticism by posting at ffnet; your mental state is not my problem.
You also keep forgetting the part where I encouraged you to keep writing and wished you luck with becoming a better writer. In the end, I think that's what we all want.
By the way, if your friend cares, I live in Ohio. I figure that saves her some time trying to "hack" into my account. Not that I was worried.
Don`t you tell me who`s business it is to post if they are "fragile" as u put it. The point i was making is that u said it all very rudely(lets ignore the review part which a review is supposed to be for). I do not want tribute which is just plain bullshit. I have already been through this. I am tired and i have college work to get to. I do not have time for this anymore.
-If u dont know now then i cant help u-
and
Do not bullshit me with the difference between libel and slander. You know what I meant and doing that just offends me further. *sigh* Fuck i dont want to talk about this anymore....but i must get my point across. I think that i already have...
>Do not bullshit me with the difference between libel and slander. You know what I meant >and doing that just offends me further.
It's not bullshit. Regardless of whether it would be called libel or slander, my words have nothing to do with either. Again; I never said you couldn't have an opinion. It's not up to me to decide that sort of thing. I respect your opinion; I just happen to think it is highly misguided.
>*sigh* Fuck i dont want to talk about this anymore....but i must get my point across. I think >that i already have...
Well, from our discussion, I've learned not to leave you comments that are anything but ego-stroking. But since you asked, I do promise not to review you in the future.
-Ania
aaaaand (at times, two e-mails were crossing each other in space)
>Don`t you tell me who`s business it is to post if they are "fragile" as u put it.
You're the one who brought up fragility. I'm not playing god here; it's common sense that if a person cannot handle a variety of reviews, they should avoid posting to a place designed for public reviewing, if only to avoid the stress.
>The point i was making is that u said it all very rudely(lets ignore the review part which a >review is supposed to be for). I do not want tribute which is just plain bullshit.
I was no ruder than you were. If someone promised you reviews and then did not leave any, that is rude. You bitching about needing more reviews to people who are NOT obligated to review is also rude. You may not want tribute, but everyone I spoke to who read your comments interpreted it as you demanding attention. If you don't wish to convey this impression, take the time to choose your words more carefully in the future.
>I have already been through this. I am tired and i have college work to get to. I do not have >time for this anymore.
How nice. I am also in college. I'm a creative writing major. I still have a lot to learn, but the very first thing they taught us is the need to listen carefully and respond calmly when people criticize our work. Protesting and defending ourselves might be instinctive, but it will never allow us to get any better.
>-If u dont know now then i cant help u-
Again. I know who you are; I just don't know anything about you personally, which negates the possibility of this being some kind of personal vendetta.
Good luck in the future.
-Ania
Do not act like im dumb. I can catch your little hints in there like i dont get your point. I dont care if youre majoring in creative writing(and dont twist it around to say that im knocking it. Good for you for picking a major that will be a lot of fun.
I know how to take criticism. What I am angry at is the way you portrayed what I wrote. I do expect reviews alright? I am entitled to that opinion. You are entitled to believe that people do not need to review. With me so far on this? I understand that. I do not appreciate the fact that you made it look like I was demanding tribute for my story. Hell no. If u misread it or did not interpret what I meant in my own words then thats ok. All i`m asking is that for things like that whic are not part of the story to be for email. That`s all I ever meant.
The review part for my story is understandable. That`s fine. I was angry at how u made me sound like some kind of bad guy here. Thats what I was upset about. I dont like it when someone writes so much about something they may have misinterpreted. I miss interpret a lot. Everyone does. Life is like that but please do me the favor of realizing that I did not ask for tribute and I know that you are entitled to an opinion. Just leave the review for the story under reviews and the part about me requesting reviews in an email.
Thats what I meant.
-Akima-
I do not have a big ego. U really did not read what I wrote did you? Its sad that this had to happen. If u knew me at all u would take that back. Im the opposite of having a big ego. LOL!! U should ask my friends. I have very low self esteem and I can accept criticism. Imagine that? I`m human after all! I already wrote an email for that. If I had a big ego I would have gone off the handle and written some pretty awful things. Do not judge me like this and I wont judge u. You tell me i hav a big ego? Talk to me on IM sometime. That will change it pretty fast. It deeply saddens me for someone to call me that. I`ve been called some ugly names before but this tops it off.
>Do not act like im dumb. I can catch your little hints in there like i dont get your point. I dont >care if youre majoring in creative writing(and dont twist it around to say that im knocking it. >Good for you for picking a major that will be a lot of fun.
I don't think you're dumb. I never said that. And I didn't tell you my major to be impressive, just to show that I do have some training in evaluating written work.
> I know how to take criticism. What I am angry at is the way you portrayed what I wrote. I >do expect reviews alright? I am entitled to that opinion. You are entitled to believe that >people do not need to review. With me so far on this?
Well, I've been saying all along that you are entitled to your opinion, so yes.
>I understand that. I do not appreciate the fact that you made it look like I was demanding >tribute for my story. Hell no. If u misread it or did not interpret what I meant in my own >words then thats ok. All i`m asking is that for things like that whic are not part of the story to >be for email. That`s all I ever meant.
Except I did not misinterpret what you wrote. I read what you wrote, considered the tone and word choice, and made a logical conclusion. After listening to you, I will choose to believe you when you say you did not intend to sound greedy or demanding. However...you did, and it's not because of my mindset or how I read things. It's because of the way you phrased things. If you came across in a manner you did not intend, that really sucks, but it is your responsibility to be responsible for your words. If one person reads things differently than how you intended, that might be misinterpretation. If quite a few do, then nine times out of ten it's because you made a bad wording choice. (Yes, these people actually do exist, I just somehow got elected to be the speaker.)
>The review part for my story is understandable. That`s fine. I was angry at how u made me >sound like some kind of bad guy here. Thats what I was upset about. I dont like it when >someone writes so much about something they may have misinterpreted. I miss interpret a >lot. Everyone does. Life is like that but please do me the favor of realizing that I did not >ask ?for tribute and I know that you are entitled to an opinion. Just leave the review for the >story under reviews and the part about me requesting reviews in an email.
Again, I came to the conclusion I did because of what you wrote. Honestly, you did come across as greedy. I am sorry that this is not what you intended, but that is how it came across, and not as a result of any personal biases I may have. If you'd put something in your story specifying what kind of responses you would like on ffnet and what you would like through e-mail, I would have simply e-mailed you from the beginning, as I am doing now. Just something to consider for the future.
>I do not have a big ego. U really did not read what I wrote did you?
I did. I never said you had a big ego.
>Its sad that this had to >happen.
Actually, I'm having a pretty good day myself. This is just fanfiction. It's not a big deal.
>?If u knew me at all u would take that back.
Well, the point is that I don't know you. All I can do is evaluate your words on their basis alone.
>Im the opposite of having a big ego. LOL!! U should ask my friends. I have very low self >esteem and I can accept criticism. Imagine that? I`m human after all! I already wrote an >email for that. If I had a big ego I would have gone off the handle and written some pretty >awful things.
Well, you sort of did. However, I appreciate the calmer tone in your last e-mail. As far as the review itself goes, I think we're both okay with where it stands.
>Do not judge me like this and I wont judge u. You tell me i hav a big ego? Talk to me on IM >sometime. That will change it pretty fast. It deeply saddens me for someone to call me that. >I`ve been called some ugly names before but this tops it off.
I. Never. Said. You. Had. A. Big. Ego. However, demanding reviews makes it seems as if you want to "feed" the ego, so to speak. Blah blah we've been through this already. Feel free to IM me at SailorSnark if you feel the need, but again, this is not about personal stuff.
-Ania
TBC...
What the hell am I talking about? Well, last night I was traipsing through ffnet and came across one of the most blatant examples of review-mongering I have EVER seen.
"****This is not the end of this chapter but I will not continue this with only four people reading it. People kept telling me that they wanted more Trigun fics from me. I started this one so I could fulfill this and because I enjoy writing Trigun fics. When I get nothing from the people who asked for it and only a few reviews per chapter(thank you to the people who did review ^.^) I suspect that no one is even reading this anymore. I take time out of my day to write this for people. I do my best and only a few people are kind enough to review it. I will not continue this if I do not get more reviews. I`m so sorry to the people who are enjoying this but I do need more support to write this.
Thank you to the people who read this. Again: I need more reviews."
I was flabbergasted, though I have no idea why. And I had people egging me on. And so I left a response. Here is the day-long "epic" of stupidity that resulted.
My response:
Thank you to the people who read this. Again: I need more reviews."
What you need is a good kick in the pants.
Get this straight, sir or madam. People do not owe you reviews. Again: PEOPLE DO NOT OWE YOU REVIEWS. If you don’t want to write or post unless you get a certain number of reviews, that is your prerogative and a valid decision, but I beg you to stop the self-righteous bullshit posturing.
Let’s see. You take the time out of your day to write this, eh? So very different from all the other authors who manage to freeze time and write in a sub-pocket stasis field, I see. Guess what? You take the time to write; that makes you a writer. It does not make you some benevolent demi-god whose fic we are obligated to fall over ourselves to praise when it is posted. Don’t act like you’re doing us any huge favors by writing. You write because you want to, and you post because you presumably want to know what people think. How unique, except for the part where it’s not. Everyone wants feedback, chuckles. The difference is that most people understand that they will not get as much as they want. Maybe people are busy, or don’t have much to say, or don’t like it, or just plain don’t feel like reviewing. That sucks for the author, ANY author, but it is no way an affront to them or you because you! Are! Not! Owed! Feedback! Even if people asked you to write more, that does not equal some mystical contract in which they are obligated to review. If you’re right and no one’s reading your story…well, sucks to be you, but that’s no reason for a childish whine-attack over how you’re not getting the attention you feel you deserve.
You say you need reviews. You do not. You would like to have reviews. Nothing wrong with that. But there IS something wrong with guilt-tripping anyone who happens to be reading for exercising their right to choose what they do or do not review.
Oh, and in case you’re wondering if this is some kind of personal vendetta or a ranting born of some kind of jealousy…no. I’m just your everyday fic reader who gets annoyed when writers act like they’re owed some sort of tribute. Just to make sure it wasn’t just me, I asked a few associates and they too were appalled by your comments.
Now. You requested reviews, so here is my honest opinion, unaffected by your little pity-party above. I thought all of this the first time I saw this fic, but never reviewed because…well, that’s really my business alone, isn’t it? Anyways. This story is not a bad beginning, but it could use some fleshing out. Everything is happening a little too conveniently to set in motion the events you want. It truly strains credibility to ask us to believe that Vash callously abandoned Meryl at the altar and now they’re friends as if nothing happened. The humiliation factor alone would take quite some time to get over. His reasoning is also flawed; if he cannot bear to be with her because of the pain of seeing her age and die, why is he still her friend and why does he still spend lots of time with her? She will still die eventually, and the agony of losing a dear friend is also extremely painful. It’s a flawed argument. From the beginning, it’s hard to believe in whatever happens next because the setup is unrealistic. This is not an awful fic and could be quite good in time, but it does need work. If you choose to continue it, I applaud you for your persistence and desire to improve. If you choose not to continue, that is also your right. Either way, please remember that it is your choice and a voluntary action, not one half of a bartering system.
To: bitter_reader@hotmail.com
Please! If I want reviews for my story it is up to me to decide this! Do not write me what you consider all in your own opinion. It is not bullshit to me. What I wrote up there was my own opinion. People did not have to respond to that. They chose to because they wanted to have it continue. And yes it does take time out of my day. I do write for people and I think that I need to hear from people to see if it is any good.
Another thing: Do not give me this crap about "it could have been better". Duh! Every story could be better! You probably wrote all of this out because you did not agree with my opinion, You can write me an email. Do not waste some criticism on me just so you can feel better about that. Yes. It might be your opinion but I do not appreciate the way that you responded to it. Keep your personal stuff to yourself that has to do with my opinion. I do not mind constructive criticism but with what you put before I can tell that you are pissed about what I wrote to the readers.
In other words I do not appreciate what you wrote but I you are entitled to your own opinion. Do not write things like that under my reviews again. You do not know who`s feelings can be hurt by that.
-You know who-
>Please! If I want reviews for my story it is up to me to decide this! Do not write me what >you consider all in your own opinion. It is not bullshit to me. What I wrote up there was my >own opinion. People did not have to respond to that. They chose to because they wanted to >have it continue. And yes it does take time out of my day. I do write for people and I think >that I need to hear from people to see if it is any good.
I think I'll just skip this part. I've made it clear how I feel; you disagree. We can both live with that, I think.
>Another thing: Do not give me this crap about "it could have been better". Duh! Every story >could be better! You probably wrote all of this out because you did not agree with my >opinion,
No. As I said in my review, these were thoughts and reactions that I had before you ever posted the third chapter. Not that I have to justify my review-leaving habits, but I had planned on leaving one eventually. It would have said the exact same thing, minus the ranting. You just happened to inspire the ranting before I got around to it.
>You can write me an email. Do not waste some criticism on me just so you can feel better >about that.
Uh...feel better about what? Look, if you only want the positive reviews posted to ffnet and constructive criticism e-mailed directly to you, SAY SO. People can't read your mind. You posted to a public forum and should know that in doing so, you open yourself up to praise, criticism, etc etc etc. You knew that one of the main purposes of ffnet was the review system. Why should you expect all of them to be good? As writers, we don't get to choose how people react to our work. I'm sure most people would be willing to send you private criticism if you asked, but even then, as long as you post to a public arena, expect that people will ultimately decide for themselves how they want to respond.
>Yes. It might be your opinion but I do not appreciate the way that you responded to it. >Keep your personal stuff to yourself that has to do with my opinion. I do not mind >constructive criticism but with what you put before I can tell that you are pissed about what >I wrote to the readers.
You are correct about that. Quite a few people who saw what you wrote were also very annoyed by the greedy tone you set. It may not have been what you intended, but that is how it came across. My annoyance, however, did not change how I felt about the premise of your story. Personally, I find Knives/Meryl fics very interesting and am glad to see others try them out. Having been trained as a writer for quite a few years now (this does not make me a better person or somehow superior; I only say this to let you know that I do have the background to support that I'm not just talking out of my ass here), I can also say that there are a few areas in which your story could be strengthened to become a better one. You're certainly not obligated to take my advice, but I think it's rather silly to get mad when people offer what could be helpful advice.
>In other words I do not appreciate what you wrote but I you are entitled to your own >opinion. Do not write things like that under my reviews again. You do not know who`s >feelings can be hurt by that.
Duly noted. Since you requested it, I will no longer leave reviews containing honest, constructive criticism...or ranting. Good luck in developing a thicker skin.
>-You know who-
I can see the sender from the header of this e-mail, but other than that I haven't the faintest idea who you are. Definitely not a personal thing.
-Ania
Why do u have to be so rude to people? I don`t understand that. No. I do not put my real name on here because I do not want people getting my personal information. It has nothing to do with FF.net. You did not have to be so rude in this response, you know. Is it just like people to be rude because they think their opinion is what the world revolves around. Don`t you dare bullshit me with shit about my names or what have you. This is about my opinion being slandered. That`s fucking shit about me not being able to take constructive criticism. I can take it. What i can`t take is someone twisting my words around. Your ignorant misusage of the points in my words to the reader disgust me. You could have been a lot more civilized than that.
And your name on your email and your email address isnt exactly personal either. They do, however, show me exactly who you are: A person who goes around cutting what other people say down so the whole world can hear what you have to say even if it hurts someone else. I feel sorry for the people that have their fics reviewed by you who voice their opinions. I can only imagine what fragile minds you break without thinking of the consequences that may arise. For all you know those people could feel suicidal. Yes. Suicide is wrong but you know what? You don`t give a shit who you hurt! You only care about your own damn opinion! You are the perfect example of someone who takes pleasure from hurting others.
-Akima-
>Why do u have to be so rude to people? I don`t understand that. No. I do not put my real >name on here because I do not want people getting my personal information. It has nothing >to do with FF.net.
You completely missed my point. I understand you not wanting people to have your personal information. The name I'm using at the moment isn't even my regular login, because I too do not enjoy people harassing me.
>You did not have to be so rude in this response, you know. Is it just like people to be rude >because they think their opinion is what the world revolves around.
You asked for reviews. I left one that you did not agree with. Deal with it or don't post in a PUBLIC forum.
>Don`t you dare bullshit >me with shit about my names or what have you. This is about my >opinion being slandered.
First of all...libel is written, slander is spoken, so if it was anything it would be libel. Except it's not. I disagree with your opinion, but I RESPECT your right to have it. That is in no way slander, especially in a private e-mail discussion between two people.
>That`s fucking shit about me not being able to take constructive criticism. I can take it. What >i can`t take is someone twisting my words around. Your ignorant misusage of the points in >my words to the reader disgust me. You could have been a lot more civilized than that.
You obviously cannot take it. Let's look at what I did, shall we?
1. I stated my opinion that you had bad manners, an opinion which many people agree with.
2. I encouraged you to keep writing and talked about one area which needs work and would really help make the story believable.
Now, obviously you're not going to agree with me about your manners or else you wouldn't have written what you did. However, I did not twist your words at all. I talked about the impression that I and others felt that the comments gave, and I talked about our reaction to them. But I never said you said anything other than what you did.
> >Please! If I want reviews for my story it is up to me to decide this!
Yes, it is. But it is not up to you whether you receive them.
>Do not write me what >you consider all in your own opinion.
If you don't want people to review with their opinions, DON'T ASK FOR REVIEWS. If you want only positive reviews, say so. Otherwise you have no right to complain when not all of them are 100% good.
>It is not bullshit to me. What I wrote up there was my >own opinion. People did not have to >respond to that.
They don't. But you asked them to. And as I have said repeatedly, I respect your right to have an opinion. I just disagree with it. You are apparently unwilling to extend me the same courtesy.
>They chose to because they wanted to >have it continue. And yes it does take time out of >my day. I do write for people and I think >that I need to hear from people to see if it is any >good.
Feedback is a vital part of growing as a writer. However, unless all of these people explicitly stated that they would review as long as you wrote, you have nothing to complain about. In the end it is the reader's choice. Even if they reviewed in the past and encouraged you to write more, they never owe anyone reviews.
>And your name on your email and your email address isnt exactly personal either. They do, >however, show me exactly who you are: A person who goes around cutting what other >people say down so the whole world can hear what you have to say even if it hurts someone >else.
You are wrong. The name I chose to use on this account is mostly a joke shared with some of my friends. In any case, I stated my opinions calmly. You're the one who flew off the handle.
>I feel sorry for the people that have their fics reviewed by you who voice their opinions. I >can only imagine what fragile minds you break without thinking of the consequences that >may arise. For all you know those people could feel suicidal. Yes. Suicide is wrong but you >know what? You don`t give a shit who you hurt! You only care about your own damn >opinion! You are the perfect example of someone who takes pleasure from hurting others.
You have no room to complain. You asked for reviews. You did not ask for positive reviews only, therefore I concluded that you were open to all sorts. If this is not true, then perhaps you should try clarifying what types of reviews you want. Being a writer means being able to accept both positive and negative opinions of your work, learning from them if possible, and getting on with your life. If someone is so fragile that having someone point out that they have bad manners and their story is not perfect, then they have NO business posting work in an arena specifically designed for both positive and negative feedback. You willingly opened yourself to criticism by posting at ffnet; your mental state is not my problem.
You also keep forgetting the part where I encouraged you to keep writing and wished you luck with becoming a better writer. In the end, I think that's what we all want.
By the way, if your friend cares, I live in Ohio. I figure that saves her some time trying to "hack" into my account. Not that I was worried.
Don`t you tell me who`s business it is to post if they are "fragile" as u put it. The point i was making is that u said it all very rudely(lets ignore the review part which a review is supposed to be for). I do not want tribute which is just plain bullshit. I have already been through this. I am tired and i have college work to get to. I do not have time for this anymore.
-If u dont know now then i cant help u-
and
Do not bullshit me with the difference between libel and slander. You know what I meant and doing that just offends me further. *sigh* Fuck i dont want to talk about this anymore....but i must get my point across. I think that i already have...
>Do not bullshit me with the difference between libel and slander. You know what I meant >and doing that just offends me further.
It's not bullshit. Regardless of whether it would be called libel or slander, my words have nothing to do with either. Again; I never said you couldn't have an opinion. It's not up to me to decide that sort of thing. I respect your opinion; I just happen to think it is highly misguided.
>*sigh* Fuck i dont want to talk about this anymore....but i must get my point across. I think >that i already have...
Well, from our discussion, I've learned not to leave you comments that are anything but ego-stroking. But since you asked, I do promise not to review you in the future.
-Ania
aaaaand (at times, two e-mails were crossing each other in space)
>Don`t you tell me who`s business it is to post if they are "fragile" as u put it.
You're the one who brought up fragility. I'm not playing god here; it's common sense that if a person cannot handle a variety of reviews, they should avoid posting to a place designed for public reviewing, if only to avoid the stress.
>The point i was making is that u said it all very rudely(lets ignore the review part which a >review is supposed to be for). I do not want tribute which is just plain bullshit.
I was no ruder than you were. If someone promised you reviews and then did not leave any, that is rude. You bitching about needing more reviews to people who are NOT obligated to review is also rude. You may not want tribute, but everyone I spoke to who read your comments interpreted it as you demanding attention. If you don't wish to convey this impression, take the time to choose your words more carefully in the future.
>I have already been through this. I am tired and i have college work to get to. I do not have >time for this anymore.
How nice. I am also in college. I'm a creative writing major. I still have a lot to learn, but the very first thing they taught us is the need to listen carefully and respond calmly when people criticize our work. Protesting and defending ourselves might be instinctive, but it will never allow us to get any better.
>-If u dont know now then i cant help u-
Again. I know who you are; I just don't know anything about you personally, which negates the possibility of this being some kind of personal vendetta.
Good luck in the future.
-Ania
Do not act like im dumb. I can catch your little hints in there like i dont get your point. I dont care if youre majoring in creative writing(and dont twist it around to say that im knocking it. Good for you for picking a major that will be a lot of fun.
I know how to take criticism. What I am angry at is the way you portrayed what I wrote. I do expect reviews alright? I am entitled to that opinion. You are entitled to believe that people do not need to review. With me so far on this? I understand that. I do not appreciate the fact that you made it look like I was demanding tribute for my story. Hell no. If u misread it or did not interpret what I meant in my own words then thats ok. All i`m asking is that for things like that whic are not part of the story to be for email. That`s all I ever meant.
The review part for my story is understandable. That`s fine. I was angry at how u made me sound like some kind of bad guy here. Thats what I was upset about. I dont like it when someone writes so much about something they may have misinterpreted. I miss interpret a lot. Everyone does. Life is like that but please do me the favor of realizing that I did not ask for tribute and I know that you are entitled to an opinion. Just leave the review for the story under reviews and the part about me requesting reviews in an email.
Thats what I meant.
-Akima-
I do not have a big ego. U really did not read what I wrote did you? Its sad that this had to happen. If u knew me at all u would take that back. Im the opposite of having a big ego. LOL!! U should ask my friends. I have very low self esteem and I can accept criticism. Imagine that? I`m human after all! I already wrote an email for that. If I had a big ego I would have gone off the handle and written some pretty awful things. Do not judge me like this and I wont judge u. You tell me i hav a big ego? Talk to me on IM sometime. That will change it pretty fast. It deeply saddens me for someone to call me that. I`ve been called some ugly names before but this tops it off.
>Do not act like im dumb. I can catch your little hints in there like i dont get your point. I dont >care if youre majoring in creative writing(and dont twist it around to say that im knocking it. >Good for you for picking a major that will be a lot of fun.
I don't think you're dumb. I never said that. And I didn't tell you my major to be impressive, just to show that I do have some training in evaluating written work.
> I know how to take criticism. What I am angry at is the way you portrayed what I wrote. I >do expect reviews alright? I am entitled to that opinion. You are entitled to believe that >people do not need to review. With me so far on this?
Well, I've been saying all along that you are entitled to your opinion, so yes.
>I understand that. I do not appreciate the fact that you made it look like I was demanding >tribute for my story. Hell no. If u misread it or did not interpret what I meant in my own >words then thats ok. All i`m asking is that for things like that whic are not part of the story to >be for email. That`s all I ever meant.
Except I did not misinterpret what you wrote. I read what you wrote, considered the tone and word choice, and made a logical conclusion. After listening to you, I will choose to believe you when you say you did not intend to sound greedy or demanding. However...you did, and it's not because of my mindset or how I read things. It's because of the way you phrased things. If you came across in a manner you did not intend, that really sucks, but it is your responsibility to be responsible for your words. If one person reads things differently than how you intended, that might be misinterpretation. If quite a few do, then nine times out of ten it's because you made a bad wording choice. (Yes, these people actually do exist, I just somehow got elected to be the speaker.)
>The review part for my story is understandable. That`s fine. I was angry at how u made me >sound like some kind of bad guy here. Thats what I was upset about. I dont like it when >someone writes so much about something they may have misinterpreted. I miss interpret a >lot. Everyone does. Life is like that but please do me the favor of realizing that I did not >ask ?for tribute and I know that you are entitled to an opinion. Just leave the review for the >story under reviews and the part about me requesting reviews in an email.
Again, I came to the conclusion I did because of what you wrote. Honestly, you did come across as greedy. I am sorry that this is not what you intended, but that is how it came across, and not as a result of any personal biases I may have. If you'd put something in your story specifying what kind of responses you would like on ffnet and what you would like through e-mail, I would have simply e-mailed you from the beginning, as I am doing now. Just something to consider for the future.
>I do not have a big ego. U really did not read what I wrote did you?
I did. I never said you had a big ego.
>Its sad that this had to >happen.
Actually, I'm having a pretty good day myself. This is just fanfiction. It's not a big deal.
>?If u knew me at all u would take that back.
Well, the point is that I don't know you. All I can do is evaluate your words on their basis alone.
>Im the opposite of having a big ego. LOL!! U should ask my friends. I have very low self >esteem and I can accept criticism. Imagine that? I`m human after all! I already wrote an >email for that. If I had a big ego I would have gone off the handle and written some pretty >awful things.
Well, you sort of did. However, I appreciate the calmer tone in your last e-mail. As far as the review itself goes, I think we're both okay with where it stands.
>Do not judge me like this and I wont judge u. You tell me i hav a big ego? Talk to me on IM >sometime. That will change it pretty fast. It deeply saddens me for someone to call me that. >I`ve been called some ugly names before but this tops it off.
I. Never. Said. You. Had. A. Big. Ego. However, demanding reviews makes it seems as if you want to "feed" the ego, so to speak. Blah blah we've been through this already. Feel free to IM me at SailorSnark if you feel the need, but again, this is not about personal stuff.
-Ania
TBC...