What's so amazing about really deep thoughts?

[effervescible]

The more time I spend in fandom, the more I'm convinced that the most extreme, hardcore members of a given 'ship faction don't actually care about their own pairing. They just want the opposing pairing to be Wrong. It's like the emotional equivalent of minmaxing number-crunchers who will do complex math about the propulsion and weapons systems of fictional spaceships in order to prove that Star Trek/Wars totally sucks compared to Star Wars/Trek, when the actual point is that laser swords and laser guns both rule.

I think my analogy went a little off-course there. Eh.

Comments

[kudzita.livejournal.com]

I agree! I'd submit the HP wank about Harry/Hermione vs. Ron/Hermione as an exhibit (although I suppose I'm biased cause H/H never made any sense to me, and hence the whole thing seemed...weird.)

also, laser weaponry in general is totally sweet.

[jaina.livejournal.com]

That's definitely the most famous example, and I'm sure it came from both sides—I only recall H/Hr examples off the top of my head, but I think that's just because the rabid H/Hr fans were funnier and therefore more memorable. But I see it in plenty of fandoms and ships, including my own, and while I LOVE me some analytical character nit-picking, the intensity of it makes me feel tired just looking at it.

Laser weaponry is TOTALLY sweet. Which reminds me, I need to keep playing No More Heroes.

[stimulant.livejournal.com]

Here here!

/toast to Jaina

[jaina.livejournal.com]

Ffft I don't think I've said anything particularly praiseworthy. But hey, free toast!

[sideburnpower.livejournal.com]

Provided all of you are wrong it means my paring must be the right one.

It's defining a thing by saying what it is not. Which is hard to do and usually has to be done, if it's going to be done well, in the context of some positives. i.e.: Love is patient, love is kind, love does not envy, it does not fail, &etc, &etc...

But if they were to do this well they wouldn't be hardcore anything shippers.

[cyanglow]

I like this post.

Been thinking about the subject a lot recently, after some shenanigans went down this weekend. I think you took the main point that was trying to congeal in my head, and laid it out very succinctly here.

And you back up the notion I have that we multi-shippers are totally at war with ourselves within out own heads. ;)

(eta: by "we" I mean myself and those like me who think that all or at least most ships work and can be fun.)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/]

I actually think it's not about right and wrong because the emotional tenor of these battles is really different from the ones I have with my "lets pick at the text" friends, even those who disagree profoundly--I think the emotional stimuli of ship battles is a like a drug to some people. I think some people like the excitement and will really be disappointed when it's all over, no matter if their ship wins or not. I'm almost perfectly convinced that some people in fandom already know outcomes but argue xy or z just for the thrills of the yelling match, not for the rewards of being proven right.

I do wonder, though. I'm almost ready to suggest that shipping is like some sort of disorder that needs to be in the DSM IV. It's as intense as anything else that plagues people--OCD or Bipolar it seems. :/

[nomoreprinces.livejournal.com]

I think you may be onto something with shippingwank being akin to some sort of disorder or could be attributed to such. And that's all I really feel comfortable saying because 1) I don't know much about them other than a casual tv/movie based knowledge of them and I fear I'll offend with ignorance. :) But it's definitely something to consider and pester a psychologist about. It would make a fantastic dissertation.

I'd make it mine, for my Masters' thesis but alas it is not my field and I'm doing it on Blizzard/World of Warcraft instead. >D

[jaina.livejournal.com]

Yes, this. I'm not saying it's wrong to be really into a pairing or be passionate about your fannish interests; not at all. But there is a point, and it's not necessarily easy to tell exactly where that is until you're past it, when I can't see any enthusiasm or love for an aspect of fandom. I just see anger.

[jaina.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

...now I'm curious about this weekend, though I'd be willing to bet it would make my head explode. (All I did this weekend was RP and play Kingdom Hearts. PRODUCTIVE.) Nothing in particular prompted this post--it's just a thought that's been bouncing around my head.

The thing is, I don't think it's unhealthy to be passionate about a ship, or even a friendship, or another element of the series. (Though it can be.) And having lots of ships/not caring if your main ship becomes canon isn't intrinsically better. But I do sometimes read things and think "Why do you care THIS MUCH?"

[jaina.livejournal.com]

For some people, maybe, but I also don't think being stimulated emotionally and needing the other people to be wrong are mutually exclusive.

You know me--I don't think passion or wanting to nitpick analyze or debate are bad things. I'm not one of those people who thinks that to be cool or healthy or whatever, you have to not care. And I do try to avoid the places that hurt my brain, because that kind of conflict just isn't my thing, and I'm not going to tell other people what not to do. But from time to time I come across something and I don't see excitement or passion or anything grown from something good. I just see rage and spite. There is a problem there.

[maeveth.livejournal.com]

It's like politics but with ships?

[jaina.livejournal.com]

YES. SERIOUSLY.

[maeveth.livejournal.com]

Hardcore shippers: like birthers, in a way.

[jaina.livejournal.com]

I'm repeating myself, but like I said in other comments--it's not wrong to be really into a ship or be passionate about a part of fandom. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE TOO COOL FOR SCHOOL AND ALL UNCARING ABOUT STUFF. GETTING EXCITED IS GOOD.

But there's a difference between getting excited and having either a coronary or an orgasm over proving other people wrong about someone else's fictional work.

[cyanglow]

Going by what you've said here and in other comments, the weekends shenanigans would have definitely made your head explode. D: I'm usually a bit too detached about fandom debate to really get passionate one way or another, but damn, even MY head was exploding. I had to get off the internet and play with my kitten for a while.

[cyanglow]

Good one!

[maeveth.livejournal.com]

It is cool to care and be enthusiastic. It is less cool to think that 'caring and being enthusiastic' = 'ALL Y'ALL ARE WRONG, YOU HEAR ME???'

[maeveth.livejournal.com]

Hardcore shippers seriously remind me of the fringe elements of various political parties that are getting so much press right now. It doesn't matter whether or not they're right; what matters is that the other guy is WRONG.

[cyanglow]

Yeah, I've been seeing a lot of that too. It's kind of intimidating.

[maeveth.livejournal.com]

For me it's less 'intimidating' and more 'jesus christ we're all fucked aren't we?'

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't call it a disorder, but I think you're right that some people really like the excitement and the yelling matches over actual love of their pairings.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/]

Yeah, as someone who's actually got a psychological disorder and is a shipper as well, I have to say that I was "kidding on the square." Which a New York Jewish sort of way of saying joking seriously. There's something pathological about the extremes to which shipping can be taken--as with all fascinations that turn into obsessions, I suppose. Some obsessions are harmless and some aren't.

[sarcasticval.livejournal.com]

It be brilliant, yo.

[jaina.livejournal.com]

Prooobably. Hooray for my laziness, I guess.

[jaina.livejournal.com]

Obviously.

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

Heh, yeah. I think I need to learn that phrase, it's awesome.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I don't think that bugs me as much as people who are half-assed about the ship they claim while openly saying that the only reason they ship it is because they hate the alternatives and want to read something. Those people make me want to shout "Go find some freakin' genfic already and stop complaining!" If they only read ship fic to complain about it as the lesser of two evils, then I don't want to hear the whining.